CarlmanZ

Replacing "w"

Hello, is there a reason why you have substituted ƿ for w in OE words in your last few edits? I understand that it is a convention of Anglish Spelling, but I am writing OE examples using conventional transliteration, not doing any writing in Anglish Spelling. --AtterCleanser44 (talk) 22:54, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

(this next part is from CMZ, he doesn't know how to properly reply in this format)

Oh I just thought it'd make sense for all cases of Old English on this wiki to be unified, and one of the discrepancies I noticed was whether-or-not OE uses ⟨w⟩ or ⟨ƿ⟩. Wordwork seems to prefer the latter option, as seen in Anglish Given Names, so that's the route I went down.

I see. I prefer w over ƿ since it's conventional to transliterate ƿ to w in works about Old English now (and the Anglish Wordbook uses w as well), and it's easier to reference and look up OE forms using w. I prefer to stick to w on the pages that I have worked on, so I am thinking about reverting it to w on my pages. Of course, it will lead to an inconsistency with the forms in Anglish Given Names (unless ƿ on that page is changed to w, but I'll leave that decision to you and Wordwork). In any case, I do not think that an inconsistency over the use of ƿ in Old English examples will lead to any great problems. --AtterCleanser44 (talk) 02:59, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Oh, alrighty! I talked to Hurlebatte about it on the Discord, and he told me his main reason for using ⟨w⟩ over ⟨ƿ⟩ on the Wordbook was due to it being easier to search through the page more than anything. Anyway, feel free to revert the changes on your pages. Have a good one! --CarlmanZ (talk) stilldoesntknowhowtousethis 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Names with f

Hello, I've been looking at some of the work on the Anglish Given Names page, and I'm impressed with the progress made. But you may want to know that some of the reconstructed forms do not appear to be correct. For example, OE Lēofrīċ is revived as Lefrich, but that is a faulty reconstruction, since the name actually has survived in forms like Leverich. The reason for the voiced form is that in Old English, if the first element of a compound ended with f, s, or th, and it was followed by a voiced sound, then the consonant was voiced.

Furthermore, it may surprise you that even the pronunciation of Alfred is a spelling pronunciation, since the name survived up to Middle English in forms like Alured (where u represents v). The name Alfred appears to have been revived centuries later, and it was revived with a spelling pronunciation. It even shows indirect French influence, since it was French that introduced the letter v and removed the use of the letter f to represent v. If the name had survived, I wager that it would have become something like Alvered (if we assume the addition of a vowel like in Leverich) or Alred (if we assume loss of v before a consonant like in Lemon from OE Lēofmann).

Basically, the rule is that if f, s, or th in the first half of a compound name is followed by a voiced sound, then it should be voiced, and in the case of v, it may even be lost before a consonant. So OE Wulfrīc would have yielded something like Wolverich or Wolrich. --AtterCleanser44 (talk) 05:49, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

Oh, these are all very good to note, I thank you for mentioning them! I'll bring these up with Wordwork, who owns the page and is in charge of it. He's been taking a break recently, but I'm sure he'll love to hear these. Y'might wanna mention this stuff to him directly, too. He's much better at words than I am. --CarlmanZ (talk) 06:11, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

Me again, hello! I hope you don't mind if I ask for an update on this. Did you ever have that talk with Wordwork? I had my own talk with him over Discord -- he prefers using that to talk, BTW -- and he told me he wouldn't mind if you went ahead and made the Alfred-to-Alvered changes you proposed. We agreed you'd be the best to do it since you already know everything to do, but do mention otherwise if you think otherwise! --CarlmanZ (talk) 02:17, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Ah, I don't really use Discord, so I've not talked to him about this, and certain other things have occupied my time, which is why I have not begun looking over the names in depth yet. Rest assured, I'll get to it soon. --AtterCleanser44 (talk) 05:28, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Alright, that's good to know. Thank you for the update. Do take care. --CarlmanZ (talk) 06:55, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

The vowel in "-olph"

Hello, I've noticed that for the English spellings of names ending with -wolf, the latter element has been changed to -olph. I can understand changing f to ph as part of Latinization, but should the vowel not stay as u? The reason that o is used in wolf is that after w replaced wynn, /u/ after /w/ was written as o in words like wolf and woman to avoid sequences of vertical strokes. But if /w/ were to disappear in the names, then there would be no reason for the letter o to remain. So would a name like Randolph not be better spelled as Randulph (which is an attested spelling)? At the very least, I think it should be included as an alternative spelling, especially since it shows the pronunciation of the name more clearly (given the pronunciation of -olph in Randolph, I have a suspicion that Latinization of the name has caused people to adopt a spelling pronunciation for the name). --AtterCleanser44 (talk) 06:14, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Oh hi! You make a good point, I'll bring it up with Wordwork. I'll let you know his say on the matter.--CarlmanZ (talk) 06:23, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Me again, hello. Wordwork responded, and he said that it seems fair to include -ulph as an alternate spelling. I prefer -olph myself, since it feels more "Englishly", if that makes sense; but, I'm not one to argue with the boss, so if you wanna mark the alternate spellings, go right ahead. Sorry for the delay in response. --CarlmanZ (talk) 07:16, 31 May 2023 (UTC)